The spirit of approaching spring gradually awakens people from winter's slumber and the issue whether change of power should be carried out from above or via revolution from below that has been on the agenda for so many years becomes pressing again.

- I have declared on numerous occasions that there are no grounds for holding either presidential of parliamentary snap elections. The elections will be held in only 2 years. The year 2005 is already a pre-election year for the elections to the local self-government authorities. Everybody will start preparations for the parliamentary elections in 2006. So, - concludes NA Speaker Artur Baghdasaryan, - there exist no grounds for snap elections. Moreover, we must be keen that no extraordinary events occur in Armenia. We have had enough of extraordinary events and had a chance to understand that every such event leads to new shocks.

- By the way, the opposition decided to take to the streets (especially Baghramyan street) and commemorate 1 year since the famous developments. Don't you think that this spontaneous initiative can cause disturbances so that, indeed, a small sparkle will kindle a flame?

- I don’t think it possible.

- That the people will take to the streets?

- No. I don’t think it possible that a small sparkle will kindle a flame.

- Why are they that hopeless?

- No, simply there are no reasons for flame’s bursting out. Besides, such mood isn’t present among the society. People are good in distinguishing black from white.

- Don’t you try to paint everything in rosy colors?

- I am not that optimistic to see everything in green neither I am that pessimistic to see everything in red. I am more of a realist. And, analyzing the present situation in Armenia I feel and see that there are no reasons conditioned by either internal or external factors that may lead to mass disturbances. As far as the fact that people decided to take to the streets is concerned, that is their constitutional right.

- In contrast to you, opposition politicians don’t rule out the possibility of spark’s kindling a flame. Moreover, Aram Karapetyan has recently declared that revolutionary actions will start in spring.

- I confidently repeat: there are no grounds for revolution in Armenia.

- In your opinion, what is right to make a declaration about the revolution or to simply conduct it?

- To tell the truth, I don’t want to make assessments. It is the right of every politician to act in a manner he feels is the best. More specifically, it will be clear in May whether revolution was carried out in April or not…

   I shall add that I am not a cabinet worker. I meet and communicate with the people. I met over 1,000 people in February alone. Yes, people are dissatisfied with certain things but this is insufficient for a revolution.

- That is there are no amassed problems?

- There are, in fact, these problems are numerous. But we shouldn't fight them and we should solve them. Meanwhile, we can solve those problems only through responsible and consistent daily work. People wait from us not a revolution but the solution to their problems. Besides, we should clearly perceive the necessity of holding free and democratic elections. Not the authorities should breed authorities but the elections should breed authorities.

“LAW SAYS ONE THING FOR RICH, QUITE ANOTHER THING FOR POOR”

- RA President Robert Kocharyan’s «war-cry» to the shadow, in fact, was termed «revolution from above» in Armenia. Anyway, a revolution. Meanwhile, Parliament Speaker insists that there are no sufficient grounds for revolution in our country.

- I hail president’s position, states NA Speaker that he publicly speaks of stepping up efforts in fighting the shadow forces. We all know that shadow economy’s share is enormous, that there are businessmen who benefiting from concessions don’t share the common business environment.

- To put it more correctly, are above the law.

- Yes, unfortunately, the law isn’t the same for everyone, for at times it says one thing for one with money or rank and quite another thing for one without. Indeed, we must create such a society, such a tax and customs environment that all business entities be equal. The countries where the authorities take into account people’s opinion reach the genuine democracy otherwise tyranny reigns. We must assure that authorities really fear the people and not otherwise.

- Meanwhile, we have reached the borderline that these two poles are separated by a high wall and live both devoid of the factor of fear and despising each other.

- I believe, the state should be a partner and not a compressor , for instance, for a taxpayer. People shouldn't be afraid. Meanwhile, many are afraid as far as the matter is concerned. Some close down their businesses and leave the country and others try to find ways to solve their issues via shadow economy.  Meanwhile, as far as the authorities-people divide in a global sense is concerned, yes, such divide exists. But we can't say that the authorities are altogether isolated from the people. There are circles within the authorities that closely cooperate with the people besides, certain circles of the society try to solve their issues thought the authorities pinning on the authorities their hopes.

- You, being among those protecting interests of small and medium-sized businesses, don't have misgivings that Kocharyan's «war-cry» will strike the strongest against these circles whereas large sharks, as Arshak Sadoyan would have put it, standing by certain circles will continue to remain above the law.

- The rule of law must be established in Armenia and we must gradually ensure that everybody be equal before the law. I hail the statement of the tax service that a list stating whom organization belongs and the tax paid will be published in April.

   I am certain that we must cherish the small business for which simplified tax procedures should be adopted. We must classify what is small, medium-sized and large business. Unfortunately, such classification doesn’t exist in Armenia. That’s why many large businesses classify themselves as small or medium-sized businesses and don’t pay taxes. Consequently, the circles should be clearly defined and regulated. I have set up a Council for Small and Medium-Sized Business affiliated with NA Speaker, which performs huge amount of work. Those encountering even slightest obstacles don’t fail to appeal to us. There is a veritable torrent of calls from morning till evening at NA Speaker’s staff.

- That is, “Orinats Yerkir” has gained the power and assumed the role of a certain reformer within the very power.

- When I, being Parliament Speaker, evoked certain faulty practices criticizing them they asked me how one can be a part of the power and yet criticize it. I want to remind to my opponents that Brezhnev times have long passed. That one can be a part of the power and yet speak of its deficiencies. “Orinats Yerkir” is eager to reform the power from inside. We haven’t come to power to eulogize it but to implement our program. Meanwhile, to implement them we must make changes, offer new approaches, propose alternative solutions. This is “Orinats Yerkir.”

ONE CAN”T SHRUG OFF PEOPLE'S PROBLEMS

Artur Baghdasaryan's position that «Brezhnev times have long passed, one can be a part of the power and yet speak of its deficiencies» have led many of his colleagues (both coalition and opposition members) to a conclusion that «Orinats Yerkir» together with its leader aspires to join opposition's ranks in parliament that «Orinats Yerkir» continues to engage in populism remaining true to its principles. Then the time came when the coalition forces pressed that Artur Baghdasaryan curtsies before the opposition seeking to find grounds for prospective cooperation.

- Our principle is to say good thing to the one who is good and bad to the one who isn't good. Why did «OYe» go to the parliamentary elections in 2003? questions NA Speaker, why did we want to garner impressive representation at parliament? Because we thought if «OYe» participates in current developments it can make a difference. That is we came to make changes with our election programs and approaches, came to try to carry out our reforms . Naturally, faulty practices are abundant within the authorities of which everybody knows. If nobody speaks of it this won't encourage eradication of such practices or else if we don't mention them this doesn't matter they don't exist. That's why we shouldn't pursue ostrich’s policy and must call a spade a spade. Consequently, I think that we should have clearly defined positions on all main issues, point out all existing deficiencies and abuses, propose effective solutions for the people and the state. Naturally, such state of affairs will appeal to ones and repel the others. I have already said: if seeing to people’s cares, seeking to find solutions is populism let I be blamed for it. But if some think that shrugging off people’s problems and thinking of nothing but their mouth and pocket they will move forward, they are badly mistaken. We have fought and will fight against them and faulty practices they spread.

   When Robert Kocharyan declared that tax environment should be strengthened the very our colleagues didn’t bring him under fire. Why? Haven’t I repeatedly said the same thing? …Or is it that you can criticize Artur Baghdasaryan…We must be honest…

   I have become immune against all kinds of accusations having served 9 years as a party leader, NA Speaker. I understand that they are premeditated steps and quite often are prepared and implemented by weak and insignificant people.

  As far as the opposition is concerned, I have always held an opinion that we don’t operate on enemy’s territory. I believe that the authorities and the opposition should be engaged in healthy, political competition and not in relations bordered on hatred. We shouldn’t lead the nation to animosity and confrontation. Sometimes it seems that Armenians and Turks are more tolerant to each other than some of our politicians.

  This year we will mark 15^th anniversary since the convocation of independent Armenia’s parliament. And, as I have said in one of my recent speeches, let’s make the year 2005 a year of peace and democracy. We can have various political positions, various political approaches, but we must renounce hatred, animosity, malice, envy, and policy of smearing each other. I have done and will continue to do my best to bring our opponents to engage in constructive talk. This is our country and we mustn’t divide into enemies and friends.

  Meanwhile, none is perfect. Only he who doesn't do anything is free from errors. Besides, the time to stand by one’s actions will come…I have established a good tradition in 2004: NA Speaker presented his report for the first time since the convocation of the Armenian parliament.

…People see everything and understand that frequent insinuations against “OYe” or me are manifestations of envy and ill will.

“IF THEY TRY TO FORM MAJORITY AGAINST SOMEONE, THEY WILL FAIL”

From the very first days of the spring session the political arena came to unanimous conclusion that certain NA factions-deputy grouping aspire to create new majority.

- At most 80 MPs attend NA sittings on the best day, - states Mr. Baghdasaryan. – Then, how can we speak of a new majority? «OYe» is one of the most active factions which has 22 MPs. Add here MPs sympathizing with us who aren't small in number...If these people stay out what will become of this NA? New majority is impossible without «OYe», RPA and ARF. That is no new majority is possible outside the coalition.

  And, secondly, creation of any majority shouldn't become an end in itself. If they try to create it against somebody, they will fail. Then one question remains: why do they want to create it? I believe, all of it is nothing but allegations and unnecessary talk.

- Spring session will continue under opposition's boycott. NA, it seems, tries to prove that laws can be made without opposition present.
 

- I must say that a poor precedent was established. Let's get one thing straight: the opposition doesn't boycott but says: I will co me whenever I please. The opposition is quite actively involved in NA international activity, which is also important. The opposition also participates in making declarations, question-and-answer sessions, briefings, and “Parliamentary week” TV program and clearly announces its positions. Simply, the opposition tries to undermine NA law-making process adopting such a strategy.

  I don't think it normal to boycott 2 of 4 years in office. In the long run the people didn't grant them with mandate to boycott but to be a deputy.

  - Are you going to take steps as regards boycott’s continuation?

  - Unfortunately, constructivism isn’t always the answer. “Ardarutiun” and “National Unity” have asked me in writing to express my opinion on constitutional reform. In consistence with the right stipulated in the Rules of procedure I convened political consultation on their very application. In contrast to the “National Unity,” “Ardarutiun” didn't attend. Is this a constructive approach? What else can I say? We shall not abide by the philosophy of running after people, but will follow interest of our country, nation. Of course, I will try to unite once more, but, finally, everybody will understand what lies at the bottom of it all. Apart from criticizing one should come and get down to work on at least bills relating not only to the present but also the future of our country and are of utmost importance for the generations to come.

“I AM GENERAL IN POLITICS”

From the day one of «Orinats Yerkir»'s establishment it has been linked with Serge Sargsyan's name. Meanwhile, today Artur Baghdasaryan-Serge Sargsyan confrontation as prospective presidential candidates is being evoked constantly.

- Back then “OYe” was linked with Serge Sargsyan, today they say Serge Sargsyan is “OYe”’s enemy, concludes NA Speaker, two opposing views, both of them far from the truth. Serge Sargsyan didn’t have any connection with “OYe” back then neither is he our enemy today. As far as the presidential elections are concerned, I have repeatedly declared my position: I haven’t made such a decision as a politician. The day I make it, naturally, I shall make it public and promise that the “Iravunq” daily will be the first to learn of it.

- In fact, neither has Serge Sargsyan made up his mind on the issue yet.

- Who has in Armenia?

- Let’s say, Aram Karapetyan.

- That’s Aram Karapetyan’s right.

- Let’s say I am certain that in 2008 or in the future if snap presidential elections are held, you, for instance, will put up your candidacy, I have no doubts about it.

- It is I who has doubts. Naturally, the society considers the players on the political arena, analyzes the situation. I think it natural that a group of people can have a positive attitude towards me, another group towards the other politician, the third to another one …Every politician and political force, in the long run, make that decision themselves.

  There is no need to hurry. We still have 3 years to go. We face very serious issues. Let’s solve those issues first perform our duty before our country and people till the election time comes and everybody will make up his mind what to do. There are people who indulge in that practice, I must say at once, I don’t suffer from such habit, I am a rational person. Besides, I don’t know why we all forget the most important: our people. People’s opinion and position rank first. I am positive that neither our society nor political forces will allow people’s opinion to be violated at the forthcoming general elections, presidential elections inclusive, for Armenia’s tomorrow is a country founded on a tolerant society, free market economy and protection of human rights which is possible only if free and democratic elections are held.

- I would like to refer to the well-known saying: it's a poor soldier that never wants to become a general. Following the same logics: it's a politician soldier that …

- I am already a general in politics: I earned my doctor’s degree of legal sciences at 29 and became NA Speaker at 35.

- You haven’t occupied country’s president’s chair so far.

- Contenders are many …till my turn comes…

(to be continued)

Interviewer: Piruza Meliksetyan