- Hasn’t Orinats Yerkir/OYe (Country of Law) and personally you, Artur Baghdasaryan, fear that you “draw the fire upon you” appointing Mher Shahgeldyan as a chief of headquarters by coalition? Mher Shageldyan is an intelligent person, who is undeniably accepted in Europe. But there are forces here, which are far from being intelligent and they will try to call into life their “programme” in November referendum. Meanwhile, we know that in such cases every offence and falsification breaks on the head of the chief of headquarters.

- Repeatedly we had opportunities to announce that OYe is an organization making reforms, and winning in the elections in 2003, we became part of power to make such positive changes, which emanate from the interests of the country and people. OYe is convinced that the constitutional reforms are of political importance, and has been one of the initiators of that process. And not only for being included in our international obligations, but also for bringing positive developments just in the country in the more long-lasting vision for our people.

In the context of this philosophy we also observe Mher Shahgeldyan’s nomination of the coordinator of the chief of the headquarters, which has been made by RA President and by the coalition’s decision. OYe didn’t consider right and today is against refusing the undertaking of the envisaged responsibility for the campaign of the co-authored draft. And then, Mher Shahgeldyan only co-ordinates the work, and the other coalition forces participate to the same extent in the process and bear responsibility for that process.

Regarding the violations, in connection with that everybody is well aware of the statements made by OYe and me. We don’t need a falsified referendum, and we’ll do our best for organizing an open and transparent process. Naturally, there will be those, who would like to fish in the troubled waters. Yes, here everybody has to do work, and condemn and fight against such people. Eventually, in 2003 without any campaign the draft Constitution gained more than 500.000 votes. Let’s accept that today the situation is different. People get informed more and more day by day, the world community assists the constitutional reforms, and eventually, it’s obvious that it will promote the development of institutional democracy in the country.

- In your opinion, will the referendum of Constitution become a cornerstone of the power shift?

- The referendum of Constitution can’t become a cornerstone of the power shift because it doesn’t solve the shaping of power and it isn’t inclined to the formation of power at pan-state level, so, it will be possible to dispute by the participants of the electoral process. Moreover, the referendum should not be also observed as a problem of contradiction of power and opposition: the referendum is more a state obligation, that the country has undertaken, as well as the political forces represented in the parliament before the international community. So, I don’t see it as observing possibilities of power shift. At the same time I would like to indicate that it doesn’t mean at all that it should be held at any price: not at all. The country needs an open and transparent referendum, an open and transparent process inspiring confidence inside the country and outside its borders.

- The Prime Minister and Republican Party of Armenia (RPA) were against bringing forward the problem of deposits. Then, however, the Prime Minister and RPA were for it. There was an impression that Andranik Margaryan took the initiative of the return of the deposits.

- The return of the deposits is the result of the joint political decision, and Prime Minister Andranik Margaryan and Vardan Khachatryan, Minister of Finance and Economy, announced distinctly about that during the discussions of the budget. And, in fact, we already have excellent wordings in the budget, and the provisions of the draft being in circulation were completely moved in the bill on the budget. So, the problem is regulated by law. You know, the defeat is orphan and homeless, and the victories have numerous owners. There was time, when the problem wasn’t solved everybody was accusing OYe and me. Hundreds of interviews, publications, TV and radio programmes are prepared to discredit us. That means, if the problem wasn’t solved, OYe was discredited, and if it is solved, then everybody wins. I would like to state with satisfaction that the return of the deposits is the result of the consistent political fighting, which gave its fruits, and we’ll fulfill our duty before our senior generation and their heirs, returning their fair earning of the years, which is in the word deposits. In connection with this, a number of important realities are fixed already in the law on Budget. First, in Armenia the deposits will be returned with rather high indexation, second, the return of the deposits will be according to social priorities (on the list of family beneficiary list are retired people of turning to 70 years and more, retired people of 70 years, lonely retired people, participants of the Great Patriotic War and persons equalized to them, persons, who participated during RA defense 1990 –1994 military actions and their family members, in the result of which persons, who became invalids and their family members, family members of the victims, the invalids of the 1^st , 2^nd and 3^rd group, residents of the borderline settlements suffered during RA defense 1990-1994 military actions, residents of the disaster area suffered because of earthquake, parents of large families and their children), and it was fixed in the law on the budget, in the budget message. The most important thing is that every year a separate state programme of returning the deposits will be presented with the state budget. That 2006 state programme exists. The return of the deposits will be guaranteed within the framework “Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper,” which is envisaged to complete in 2015, i.e. till 2015, the deposits will be returned to the deposits included in “Poverty Reduction Strategy Paper,” which are about 128.000 families, from which, according to preliminary data, already about 50.000 families, i.e. about 200.000 people will get their deposits. The process of the return of the deposits is also guaranteed by law, to which I pay great attention. And in fact, all this will be guaranteed by the state medium-term expenditure programme. You know, I think, that it’s untimely to divide the laurels of the return of the deposits now or then, the important thing is to find a solution for the problem frozen for decades, and I’m glad that today the budget of the republic gives that financial opportunity, the political forces had enough will to give political-legal solution to the problem with joint efforts.

- Today, the issue of the legal successor is often discussed. They give Serge Sargsyan’s and your names. In the sense of image, is it advantageous to be Robert Kocharyan’s legal successor?

- Once I’ve already said that in Armenia there are numerous candidates in the field of opposition and power. In this matter, it seems, we don’t have any lack. What refers to Serge Sargsyan or me, neither Serge Sargsyan, nor me didn’t make any statement about such ambition, so in a political field being subject of tensions there is no necessity of having new tension. There is time for elections. What refers to the phenomenon of the legal successor, I’ve already made an announcement that not the power should bear power, but the people should bear its power in the result of free, fair elections. In opposite case, any development will lead to strict unpredictable consequences. The times of the legal successors have gone in our country, as we are seeking not for monarchy, but for real democracy. Of course, acting president of each country can have preferences and state before the elections, who he would like to see as the head of power. The Republic of Armenia also is not an exception.

- During the meeting with the students at the State University Robert Kocharyan was asked about the 3^rd term, and he didn’t refute that he’ll nominate his candidacy.

- In my impression he refuted. It’s another problem that as each person, as the acting president can continue his activity in the politics. My answer to this question is well defined. The same person can’t be nominated more than twice in the post of RA President and the talks in connection with the draft constitutional amendments, whether Robert Kocharyan wants to be elected third time, are not timely. By the way, the president repeatedly answered to that question also “no,” for example, just recently in his interview to “Euronews.” Eventually, there is the experience of CIS countries and Eastern Europe, everything in comparison becomes obvious: you’ll study and you’ll get convinced that the claim for the president, if it’s prohibited by Constitution, hasn’t been applied anywhere.

- The power wings, also your coalition colleagues refer with stressed jealousy to your speeches from opposition stances, and they say that you make pre-election campaign.

- In my speeches I try to raise problems, which exist today in our country and concern our people. Eventually, to pursue the policy of ostrich is unacceptable. We shall solve the existing problems, and not fight against them. For the solution of the problems one shall indicate the drawbacks and propose alternative solutions. More than two years passed from the day when I was elected NA President, and beginning from my speeches of the next day some try to speak about so called pre-election campaigns. Such an approach is not acceptable for me. We’ve come to power to change something, change into good, bright, positive. We succeed to do something, and we don’t succeed to do anything. But we’re continuously in movement and struggle to push forward the reforms. In Armenia the power has four sides, from which we present only just one. Naturally, there might be and there are also different stances. I calmly refer to such realities as undertaking the responsibility we shall also propose solutions. For example, we still retreat from the idea that we can develop the economy without purposeful development of small and medium entrepreneurship. For having rich budget, first, we shall create wealth, then – to re-distribute it. And for the creation of that wealth we should begin the shaping of the middle class. Our aim should be clear: the rich should not become richer, and the poor - get poorer. We shall develop the small and medium entrepreneurship, consistently decentralize the economy and boost, but not suppress the initiative. We shall have a distinct programme how to support the enterprises, in order to make them medium. We should adopt the philosophy and approaches of not impeding the entities. You know, very often, not impeding is already a positive factor for many people, because, unfortunately, in the middle circles there aren’t few people working next to the thousands of decent state employees, who merely think about their mouth and pocket, developing official circumlocution at each step.

- In this case I can’t stop asking: and how we would fight against corruption, everybody knows that giving bribery and the bribery very often remain the most effective way of solving the problems in Armenia?

- I agree that in Armenia the fighting against corruption and bribery became an urgent problem. Today, more than ever we should raise the executive order and the effectiveness of the state expenditures. We can’t allow ourselves to spend at the same time much and badly. The results of the activity of the state management bodies should be controlled and evaluated. They should be obliged to provide high indices against the expenditures, and this, in its turn should result in aggravation of the evaluation criteria. For example, by what principle the privatization takes place in Armenia, why they sell the state property with essentially low prices of the market prices out of the programme. The studies of the Control Chamber show that in most cases the customers haven’t done the obligations they’ve undertaken, and the state bodies, in their turn, haven’t made any conclusion. And yesterday, and today, and tomorrow there is no sense in what status we’ve fought and we’ll fight against similar phenomena. When I sent the materials of the Control Chamber to the Prosecutor’s Office, first time criminal cases have been brought into action, hundreds of millions were returned to the state. In the near future I’m intended to send more materials to the Prosecutor’s Office, which relate to the abuses made in a number of spheres. I’m convinced that strengthening the fighting against the shadow economy and corruption, we’ll be able to reveal the stolen things and direct to the solution of the economic and social problems. Believe, that fighting corruption is not an easy task but we should keep it in the center of the public’s attention. In that connection next year we’re intending to organize an international conference dedicated to the fighting of corruption, where problems and directions of the coordinated fighting against this evil will be discussed. I believe that the corruption in Armenia should be eradicated with concrete consistent steps and expedient activity.

- The examples of the neighbouring countries (Georgia, Ukraine) confirm that after the shift of power those, who left the power before and became radical opposition, stand at the levers of leadership, and not those, who were in power. Why do you try to be opposition being in power?

- I repeatedly said that and I repeat that for me, for the OYe, the chairman of which I’m, being in power, is not just a goal, we don’t just feel in a line in the biography, we came to power to make reforms. Democratic reforms, in the result of which we expect to have both political and economic viable systems. If some people evaluate the steps made for the solution of that problem or they assess as opposition that is their right. And eventually, being in power hasn’t ever meant in any country to close eyes on the drawbacks and mistakes and take everything as granted. The all-European experience confirms that power-opposition sequence in countries, having developed party systems and democracy naturally fill in each other, and they aren’t in hostile positions. We shall do our best that our state shall comply with the criteria proved its truth by time and experience of other countries and effectiveness for state. I imagine like that the development of Armenia. We don’t need to invent a bicycle here, such simplification in great policy: if you are against something, then – you’re opposition, if you are for everything, then – you’re power, has no sense.

- You express rather sharp in connection with the elections of local self –government. Meeting 3+1 (coalition + Robert Kocharyan) format, do you make your considerations? By the way, in connection with such speeches many people ask: whom does Artur Baghdasaryan complain?

- First of all, I don’t speak for complaining against anybody, but for the sake of changing anything. And during the meetings of the coalition, and in my public activity I don’t change my stances, and naturally, during the discussions of all key problems I express my distinct stances. I get an impression from your question that in Armenia we have Stalinist times, and an atmosphere of fear and horror rules here. I don’t think so, and in all my stances I express that rather distinctly, emanating from my political views. Presenting direct stances of principle, I think, contributes to the process of making real reforms in the country. Eventually, we should love more the country, than the power. Being honest, to my conviction, is much more advantageous, though some people think that it’s not so much advantageous. I ensure you that I never suffered by split personality neither in personal life, nor in politics.

- During these days one of the discussing questions is the problem of the participation of OSCE observers at the referendum of constitutional amendments. Eventually, will the OSCE observers participate in the referendum, by whose invitation and how?

- According to RA law on Referendum, the international and local observers can participate without restriction in the process of holding referendum and lead an observation mission. NA President can’t send an invitation for the participation in the referendum to OSCE, which is an executive structure. OSCE office of democratic institutions and human rights leads observation mission. If even an invitation should be sent, the invitee should be the RA Ministry of Foreign Affairs, not - NA. In OSCE mandate, as far as I’m aware, observation mission of the referendum of Constitution is not included, as well as observer’s mission hasn’t been invited from CIS. A more exhaustive answer we can get from the same Ministry of Foreign Affairs. There wasn’t a case in the activity of our 15-year parliament that the National Assembly invites for the elections or lead an observation mission in connection with referendum. Simply, this time, on my own initiative, I sent an invitation to the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe, taking into account also the joint work with PACE Venice Commission in the direction of making these reforms, as a result of which 12 observers will lead an observation mission.

Piruza Meliksetyan